Post 3: Thru p. 434

Moral List

MALES:

from Best to Worst

Judge Irwin
Judge Irwin has always been a father figure to Jack and appeared morally superior in Jack's head. He thinks less of him once he finds out about the bribe. In comparison to other characters, Judge Irwin seems to be the most moral. This is exhibited when he discusses politics--he makes the important decision to stay out of political corruption and bribes. Despite a mistake earlier in life, he is a morally good character in the book.

Willie Talos
While it is true that Willie is corrupted in that he accepted bribes and got mixed up in some dirty business, his accomplishments could not have been made without them. His continued efforts to help the common Louisiana residents is honorable and rare in the South during this time period when free enterprise, Dixiecrat tradition, and blue money legacy reigned superior. His building of infrastructure and even his defense of the "brick" schoolyard show that he tries to be morally good despite opposing considerable forces as governor. Most politicians must face difficult political decisions if they want to get things done. Willie Talos almost ties with Judge Irwin in this respect because while he does make some shady deals, he at least does it with the best interest of the people in mind (for the most part).

Jack Burden
Jack is one of the least morally stable characters but this is true mostly in his mind rather than his actions. He chooses to appear passive, to do what Talos asks of him and generally stay out of the Web of Things. But as we see through Jack's inner dialogue, it is Jack's moral degradation that will eventually eat his rotting soul. His mental decimation of Lois the Peach shows that he is morally degraded and is therefore one of the almost-"bad" guys. Our main character is no hero, he cares little for the actual well-being of those less fortunate than him and rather pities and scrutinizes them, or he knows that image matters.

Tiny Duffy
Although a relatively minor character, it is clear to see that Tiny Duffy is the "worst" character--he is shady in politics and cares only about money and his own interests. This is the definition of a corrupt politician. He is the antithesis of what Willie tries to be when his career in politics is just beginning. We see Tiny's actions and it is clear to see that he is morally skewed and doesn't really care much about people's well-beings beyond politics.


FEMALES:
Best to Worst.

Lucy Talos
Lucy Talos revealed her moral superiority when she discouraged her son from being an athletic star. She understands that all the wins would get to his head and "ruin him." Her understanding nature makes her an ideal candidate for "most moral" and the fact that she is this intuitive with her son's nature reveals this as well.

Anne Stanton
Anne is also a good candidate for moral superiority even though she sleeps with Willie. She isn't bad for this, but she isn't as "good" as Lucy. Her dealing with him in general reveal a more morally deteriorated state of being.

Sadie Burke
Sadie Burke is whiny, and was abused, and therefore has issues. Sadie is out for herself and is a hypocrite for getting mad about Ice Skate Girl when she is cheating with Willie on Lucy. This kind of complicated attachment shows that Sadie isn't really a morally good person. She also is unrelenting when it comes to people's feelings, she would rather be straight up (I respect that though) to a fault.

Post 2: Thru p. 222

Jack's character is increasingly revealed as the reader gets further along in the book. The scene in which he visits his mother indicates mommy issues and an estranged relationship with his past life. We see Jack for the posh, ignored rich kid he once was--living in a castle on the sea with his friends, the Stantons. Jack, we realize, is stuck in attitudes of self-entitlement that have translated into a know-it-all air about everything. The scene with the Dumonde girl reveals (before Jack's recollection of his marriage with Lois) Jack's misogynistic tendencies. She puts Jack's predicament well--a sort of foreshadowing spastic episode. "All right, speed up." she said tauntingly, "go on, get me home fast, but you're a son of a bitch. A high and mighty son of a bitch, and you sat there so high and mighty, thinking I was a fool, and so high and mighty thinking everybody there was a fool…" (178) she begins ranting and raving about Jack and we starkly see that she is right, for the most part, Warren cleverly disguises her opinion of Jack through her insanity--her wild nature and the fact that she has had breakdowns. This mental instability discredits her in Jack's mind and helps him (and his mother) further hate her and look down on her. But what she says does get into Jack's head, for a split second. From here on it is abundantly clear to the reader that Jack is not as calm, cool, and collected as he'd like to be (and is) perceived--but he is in fact a well of insecurity, removed/aloof apathy, and very detached but relentless scrutinizer. It is interesting also to see how Jack's view of Willie's speeches helped to change the way Willie presented his speeches. Jack's superior understanding of manipulating people helped and hurt Willie's career. He tells him people don't care about what he says as long as he makes them feel--revealing Jack's cunning understanding of human nature and also his lack of faith or understanding of people.

Yeakle Blog #4

All the King's Men draws its unique style from its defiance of the classic character development process. While the typical novel read in a high school English class follows a protagonist who experiences events that cause simple, explicable changes to their decidedly shallow characters, this novel weaves in and out through events that change characters in the shadows. Led astray by piling anecdotes and flashbacks, readers are kept hanging until the final parts of the book, when they suddenly realize the entire story has changed, and they wonder why they didn't notice it when it first happened. There are few static characters in All the King's Men, but their stories are written with such nuance that their development does not make itself too blaringly obvious. Jack Burden develops this way; not in a smooth line of bad to good, but in a rough, twisting journey of strange philosophies and genuinely weird events. We see his transformation most suddenly and clearly when he faces a reporter much like himself right after graduating reporting school, where Robert Penn Warren juxtapositions the old and new Jack Burden. "He was still there when I came up, a squirt with his hat over one eye and the camera hung round his neck like he was the nuts and a grin on his squirt-face." (p. 560) Jack's cynical tone is typical but ironic, as years before he had been in the place of the younger reporter. When the young reporter's comment hits a nerve, in moment where he would have previously fought with him, Jack walks away coldly. This shows that while his arrogant attitude prevailed, Jack's ability to let go of what other's thought was finally developing. By the end of the book, Jack has experienced another kind of revelation: the leaving of his mother and how it impacts his sense of self. When Jack's mother announces she have always loved Judge Irwin and is leaving her current husband, Jack is mildly surprised . This brings on a realization that his mother is not really who he has always thought she is, and the liberation of her definition causes a liberation of his own definition. "She gave me a new picture of herself, and that meant, in the end, a new picture of the world. [...] I could now accept the past which I had before felt was tainted and horrible. I could accept the past now because I could accept her and be at peace with her and myself." (p. 601) Robert Penn Warren's strength is his ability to hold off the satiating feeling of the resolution of a really dynamic character and yet maintain a plot and captive reader. Although Jack's development was skimped on until the end, his and the many characters' stories in All the King's Men are revealed and interwoven together in the concluding chapters of the book.

Yeakle Blog #3

Male Characters: Good to Bad
1. Adam Stanton
For nearly the entire novel, Adam Stanton is the moral anchor. Jack, who has been friends with Adam since they were children, considers him wholly good. At first, Adam refuses to direct the hospital even though it could gain him political power because he didn't want anything to do with the corruption in Willie's government. Jack explained, "It's very simple [...] he wants to do good." (p. 344)

2. Judge Irwin
Until Jack discovers that the Judge had been involved in a corrupted deal and taken a bribe years before, he had previously considered him to be good. He had been like a father to Jack and upheld values that place him almost at the top of the list. However, after learning about the bribe, Jack's opinion of him changes significantly, as do the opinions of Anne and Adam Stanton about the Judge. As the novel progresses, the Judge's good-ness wears thin on Jack, but his personal ties to him make Jack forgive his flaws.

3. Jack Burden
Jack is the cynical, jaded narrator of ATKM. His general outlook on life is dark, which doesn't help his own reputation. While Jack is unpredictable and unmotivated, his redeeming quality is his ability to step back from situations he doesn't want to be a part of. Due to his to-a-fault curiosity, this rarely happens, but when he doesn't want to be involved in one of Willie Talos' schemes, he isn't afraid to tell him so directly. Jack's good heart is usually overpowered by his involvement in Talos' corruption, but it does show up in his friendship with Adam and Anne and his disappointed reaction when discovering the Southern Belle Fuel Company bribe incident with the judge.

4. Willie Talos
Willie ranks #4 as he can be considered fairly "bad," but like most well written characters, is not completely good or bad. As a politician, Willie is corrupt and manipulative. His philosophy tends to be to get things done no matter the means or cost. However, his actions are things that will benefit and help people, like roads, schools, and the Willie Tallos Hospital. By having several mistresses, Willie betrays his "good" wife Lucy Talos, which makes him more "bad."

5. Tiny Duffy
While Tiny Duffy is not one of the largest (well... maybe the largest in size..) characters in ATKM, he is an antagonist influence on the other characters Willie and Jack. Duffy is only concerned with money and political power, and as Jack described, has poor skills as an actual leader and decision maker.


Female Characters: Good to Bad
1. Lucy Talos
Although she is a minor character, Lucy is the most "good" character because although she is intimately close to the shadiness of Willie Talos, she is barely involved and stays true to her own values. She stays with Willie for the sake of their son, but eventually leaves him to live a more peaceful and content life.

2. Anne Stanton
Anne is perhaps the most complex female character. Her relationship with Jack is finally explained in this section of the book, and their history reveals a lot about her personality. Throughout the beginning Anne is generally "good." Although she and Jack argue often and fall in and out of love, he always considers her to be good like her brother Adam. While her stubbornness and refusal to marry Jack come off as cold, she knew she had to make decisions carefully and consider the danger of becoming seriously involved in Jack's life, which tends to wander into gray legality. At the end of this section, it it revealed that Anne is having an affair with Willie Talos. "Yes, she, she, that Stanton girl, Anne Stanton!" (p 374) "And I did not need to [say anything]. For, looking at me, she slowly nodded." (p. 375) This significantly changes Anne's "good/bad" status with Jack, but can't be considered a major flaw because she was in no way committed to Jack at the time. Still, Willie was married and it was essentially a betrayal to Jack.

3. Sadie Burke
Sadie is not really "bad," but her working position puts her lower on the scale than Anne. While she is a strong, confident personality and vital member of the Boss' political team, she is also overly attached to Willie and controlling. She is sort of belligerent in the way that anything can trigger a yelling fit from her. Her overarching "not-goodness" is her complete involvement in the Boss' corrupt work. She does show a sense of morality in that she yells at the Boss for having prostitutes and mistresses, like the "Nordic Nymphs," but it is for her own selfish jealously rather than trying to protect Lucy.

Slaughter Post #4

As we near the end of All the King's Men, everything is finally coming together. Countless stories and tales are connecting, revealing interesting and key parts of the novel. When we are first introduced to Willie and Lucy Talos, we learn of the interesting dynamic of their relationship. Willie, a hardheaded lawyer and politician is infamous for his drinking and has a penchant for cheating on Lucy. Lucy, a woman with strong moral and religious beliefs, is aware of Willie's less than desirable habits but loves him nevertheless. She always stands by his side and constantly repeats that she always will in order to protect and care for her family. However, as the novel goes on, things change. Willie's constant cheating eventually becomes too much for Lucy. She moves out of their house. While she publicly remains with him so his political career isn't destroyed, their relationship appears much less genuine and Lucy's affection toward Willie seems to have eroded heavily over the course of the novel. However, after reaching the end of the novel, we learn that Lucy's love for Willie never truly died. After both Willie and Tom die, Lucy adopts Tom's son. She goes on to name him Willie Talos II, in honor of her late husband. "'You know,' she said, 'I named him for Willie because... Willie was a great man... Oh I know he made mistakes...bad mistakes. Maybe he did bad things, like they say. But inside-in here, deep down-' and she laid her hand to her bosom, '-he was a great man.'" (p592-593) Lucy's naming of her adopted son Willie, and her subsequent explanation of why to Jack showed that she still cared deeply about her late husband. While over the course of the novel it appeared as if her love for him was waning, it is clearly revealed to us at the end of the novel that she will always love and have a special place for Willie in her heart.

Perrando Blog Four

          We have reached the section of the book where - pardon my French - shit has hit the fan.  People are dying left and right, and seemingly insignificant scenes are rearing their ugly heads back at us, showing that everything was tied together by a previously invisible thread.  One of the most important realizations from this section is that Willie Talos is just as human as the rest of us (though some of us might be terrible examples of humans, like Alex Gordon), and even he cannot control some situations, specifically when his son Tom becomes paralyzed.  Jack has been hyping up Willie as a larger than life man from the very start of the novel, somebody who can change any situation towards his benefit.  "The Boss just stood modestly back of the gang of customers at the soda fountain, with his hat in his hand and the damp hair hanging down on his forehead.  He stood that way a minute maybe, and then one of the girls ladling up ice cream happened to see him, and got a look on her face as though her garter-belt had busted in church when she was five steps from the altar and the organ was playing Mendelssohn's "Wedding March," and dropped her ice-cream scoop..." (8).  The Boss was able to make women swoon just by showing up, despite his less than stellar outward appearance.  He could have anything he wanted, with nothing to get in his way.  However, there he lay at the hospital, just as powerless as he had been years earlier, before his rise to fame and power.  His son was in critical condition, and all he could do was pray and shout to anybody who would listen.  ""Telephone him - that boy in there - that boy in there - my boy-"  The voice didn't trail off.  It simply stopped with a sound like something of great weight grinding to a stop, and the Boss stared at Adam Stanton with resentment and a profound accusation."  Willie was finally realizing his lack of power, and was lashing out against people who he could normally step all over.  He remembered his origins as a nobody, and couldn't accept going back to those dark times.  The helplessness that Willie demonstrates in this chapter really humanizes his character, allowing the readers to create a connection that was not previously there.

Knowles Post Four

As Jack’s story continues, various pieces of new information are revealed, some of which connect existing ideas, others of which present new thoughts and revelations.  Immediately after the death of Judge Irwin, who is revealed to be Jack’s father, Jack develops some very intriguing ideas and thoughts about goodness and the truth; the shocking event of the Judge’s death seemed to generate a lot of new thoughts for Jack.  Some of these thoughts relate to the idea of categorizing the characters by goodness or badness, as we did in our last blog posts.  After the Judge dies, Jack reflects on his two “fathers”, the scholarly attorney, who he had grown up believing was his father, and Judge Irwin, who was only just revealed to be his biological father.  Jacks says that the Scholarly Attorney “had been good.  But his goodness had told me nothing except that I could not live by it” (493).  This further reveals a fundamental difference between Jack and the Scholarly Attorney, which is possibly more understandable now, as they are not really father and son.  Jack’s new understanding of goodness seems completely honest, which has not always been the main characteristic that Jack has exuded throughout the story.  Jack continues on to discover that his “new father, however, had not been good… but he had done good…he had carried his head high” (493).  Now that Jack knows his relationship to Judge Irwin, a side of Jack’s character more similar to this may begin to show.  In addition to reflecting on these ideas of goodness, Jack also begins to ponder the truth, as he has just discovered that a large and significant part of his life had not been the truth.  Jack says that he “had dug up the truth and the truth always kills the father, the good and weak one or the bad and strong one, and you are left alone with yourself and the truth…” (493).  The truth is an interesting topic for Jack to come too, as it is the central idea of his work; his main jobs for the Boss are in search of the truth.  Whenever Jack finds some element of truth, he seems to be “left alone with [it]”, as he was in California.  It is very interesting that Jack claims that the truth “always kills the father”, showing that this has happened before or will happen again.  Jack’s ideas provide new understanding of the characters around him, specifically showing perspective on Judge Irwin and the Scholarly Attorney.

See Blog 4

In this section, Jack enlightens the reader with many theories about life and people. One of which, is specifically about why people don’t really seem to change. Jack contemplates this after the Judge shoots himself, and his mom reveals that the Judge was his father. Jack wonders why, after living so close to each other for so many years, his mother and the Judge never married if they truly loved each other. Logically, one was always in a different marriage when the other wasn’t, which became an ongoing pattern. Jack reasons that, “...by the time we understand the pattern we are in, the definition we are making for ourselves, it is too late to break out of the box. We can only live in terms of the definition, like the prisoner in the cage in which he can not lie or stand or sit, hung up in justice to be viewed by the populace. Yet the definition we have made of ourselves is ourselves. To break out of it, we must make a new self” (p490). According to Jack’s theory, if his mother and the Judge had broken their pattern, the two would have to each make a “new self”. This theory also is probably his excuse for why he has always kept people at arms length. Jack is probably unconsciously worried that everything will spin out of control if he breaks his pattern. This theory may be one of the smaller ones compared to the Great Sleep or the Great Twitch, but it does shed more light onto Jack, as we slowly get to know him. Also, although many of Jack’s theories are questionable in their truth, this particular one is definitely true in our world.

Karlenzig Post 4

A lot is revealed about Jack through his thoughts surrounding the Great Twitch. The Great Twitch is another subconscious effort Jack is making to try and sooth his anger and loneliness. The Great Twitch is born from necessity. Just like the Great Sleep, the Great Twitch is an idea born to shield Jack from the harsh realities of adulthood. After the affair between Anne and Willie, Jack is devastated because he realizes his true love for Anne (and for Willie, in a different way). However the Great Twitch is a Jack's method of denying this love and creating a false sense of reality in which there is no purpose in life but to reproduce. "The twitch is simply an independent phenomenon, unrelated to the face or to what was behind the face or to anything in the whole tissue of phenomena which is the world we are lost in" (Pg 437).  This "independent phenomenon" (which is reproduction) is unrelated to anything else. Essentially Jack is making an excuse losing the love of his. He is also making an excuse for his general attitude towards life: his laziness and passivity. In fact, the Great Twitch's ideas date all the way back to Jack's marriage with Lois. Jack saw Lois as a machine rather than a person. Everything besides sex with her was irrelevant. After his trip out west Jack claims to feel the same way about Anne, but he is clearly lying to himself. 

The reason Jack is so interested in the lobotomy performed by Adam, is because Jack is wishes to lobotomize himself. The Great Twitch is Jack's way of cutting the memory of Willie and Anne's affair out of his brain. "for he is born again and not of woman. I baptize thee in the name of the Big Twitch, the Little Twitch, and the Holy Ghost. Who, no doubt, is a Twitch, too" (Pg 445). In a jokingly manner, Jack verbally baptizes the man who has just undergone a lobotomy. For he too has been altered by the theory of the Great Twitch. Although Jack seems to be joking around with Adam about this baptism, he is actually quite serious. Subconsciously (yes, Jack's subconscious is quite active) Jack is baptizing himself and giving himself a new beginning.  












   

Post #4

In this new portion of text Robert Penn Warren was able to both address more clearly and answer a large number of questions that had really been up in the air while reading the previous portions of the book, like who Jacks father was. But this way of tying up all the loose ends in a reasonably condensed period of time created a sense of organized chaos as Jack was forced to put the often difficult pieces of his world together in order to see the bigger picture. What these pieces revealed is just how much Jack seemed to rely on these relationships with both the Judge, who he discovers was his father, and the Boss, who it seems like he has developed a sort of brothership with. In one of the Willies last moments on earth jack visits him while he is sick in bed, "I stood up close to the bed and looked down at him, and tried to think of something to say. But my brain felt as juices as an old sponge left out in the sun. Then he said, in something a little better than a whisper, 'I wanted to see you Jack.' 'I wanted to see you, to, Boss'(556)". This show of true kindness and friendship towards one another and sort of indication of the relationship that was forged in the hot flame of Willies political career and the many hours that Jack and Willie spent together keeping it alive. When the Boss died the next morning it seemed to leave Jack in a sort of empty place, especially lacking a father figure in his life. Another relationship that seemed to be explored was Jacks relationship with the Judge. In the end it seemed Jack was the direct cause of the judges death. With Jack bringing back secrets from his past the judge felt as if he was forced him to take his own life in order to preserve his honor. But at the funeral when the levity of his actions actually occur to Jack he finds himself angry and sad because he is actually the cause of the death of his father, "Before I stopped, as a matter of fact, I found that I was not laughing at all but was weeping"(494). This show of sadness for a man whose relationship seemed to be taken for granted seems to show that there was more to the Jack-Judge relationship that met the eye, especially after he discovered that the judge was his father. In conclusion, this last bit of the book seems to be reserved for tying the whole book back together to the central idea, a task which was accomplished using great care and flawless diction/syntax.

Ashton Post #4

This section of the reading was riddled with familiar themes, new ideas and draining prospects for all characters, but especially for Jack. Jack's feelings of emptiness from the very beginning of the book prefaced his despair and unsettled personality. This section of the reading brought those themes even more to the forefront of the story, tying up some of his loose thoughts, and confronting the reader with his hollow ideology. Even though Jack is still a shaky person, he begins to grasp a hold of things in his life that have haunted him. It all started back in the very beginning with his lack of self confidence and simply not feeling like he was good enough to get out of bed in the morning. "For the present, I could lie there and know I didn't have to get up and feel the holy emptiness and blessed fatigue of a saint after the dark night of the soul" (140). Jack is so sheltered, and so afraid in life. He is the main character, but in a way he doesn't have an identity. Whether he was lying awake for hours on end contemplating life or agreeing to lie down on his mother's lap to provide and get some sort of affection, he is absent from the outside happenings. When he finally finds Anne, he feels like he has some sort of affection but when she leaves the house empty, Jack feels the same absence and emptiness as before. "I was suddenly aware of the emptiness of the house, the dark rooms and the attic, spilling thickly but weightlessly down the stairs, and aware of the darkness outside...I felt new blood coursing through me as though somebody had opened a sluice gate" (408). This demonstrates the panic and loneliness that Jack feels. He isn't able to feel whole again because he has no sense of identity. The unmotivated and uninspired Jack is impaired in the way that he is a prisoner in his own mind. He cannot escape his bed, nor the dark house because psychologically, he doesn't allow himself freedom, and instead, allows fear to drive him. Both the deaths of the Judge and Willie isolate Jack further in that people are vanishing out of his control. Because of the deaths, he is no longer in control of his isolation. He chose not to get out of bed, and chose not to leave the dark house. He is afraid to feel or do anything and it's frustrating to read about. It's also hard to say why he doesn't do anything about the emptiness he feels, but as the Boss said to him, "you've got to start somewhere" (540). This section of the reading makes a full circle as it references the same house with the same rain falling outside and the knock at the door. Jack finally breaks the cycle of isolation. "When I got outdoors I discovered that it had begun to rain. The clean, pale sunlight of the morning was gone now" (541). Even if he still has fear and internal pain, this section has been crucial to understanding why Jack thinks the way he does. The absence of characters brings up the motif of absence in Jack's own life, and that becomes a unique revelation for Jack and the reader.

(Wow sorry this got way long!) :)

Kelly #4

After the death of the Judge, Jack realizes that is real father was the Judge. The death shakes Jack up but tears apart his mother as she realizes that she was truly in love with the Judge. Jack had never thought that his mother had been in love, and that was why the furniture and men always changed. "She was saying how she had loved him and how he was the only person she had ever loved and how I had killed him and had killed my own father and a lot of stuff like that."(p487) The knowledge of his own past transformed Jack and allowed him to understand his family. Jack realizes that the Scholarly Attorney is stuck in the past and Jack's feelings towards the Scholarly Attorney are changed to sympathy and empathy. Jack also realizes his true love for Anne after seeing his mothers true love for the Judge. Though the death of the Judge may have been tragic and sudden, confusing and eye opening, it lead to a new Jack Burden. The person that Jack Burden used to be, before the death of the Judge was different. When Jack is told that he is the sole beneficiary of the Judge's will and the estate is his, he breaks into tears, saying "The whole arrangement seemed so crazy and so logical, that after I had hung up the phone I burst out laughing and could scarcely stop. Before I stopped, as a matter of fact, I found that I was not laughing at all but was weeping and was saying over and over again: "the poor old bugger, the poor old bugger." It was like the ice breaking up after a long winter, and the winter had been long."(p494) After Jack and Anne come together, Jacks transformation and sympathy causes him to bring the Scholarly Attorney to live with them after he finds the man "sick in a room above the Mexican restaurant" (p606). The person who Jack was before never would have picked Ellis up and brought him home with him, he wouldn't even thought about it twice. The death of the Judge turned out to be a good thing for Jack, and he becomes closer with himself and closer with the people around him. He becomes free and is able to relieve himself of all the burdens he had grown throughout his life.

Kimball Post Four

Education seems to be a constant theme in All The King's Men, whether it's the school house contract that Willie was involved in or simply learning lessons along the way. Perhaps, the most interesting revelation Jack has had so far is that which includes learning and his own education. Jack is very lucky. He was able to attend a great school and acquire an exceptional education, leading him into his interesting job in politics and with powerful boss Willie to guide him through parts of it. "Long ago Jack Burden was a graduate student, working for his Ph.D. in American History, in the State University of his native State" (p.224) but this was a different Jack Burden. He was young and naïve, and without the wisdom and experience that working along side Willie gave him. But, he was without-a-doubt, educated, well-read, and informed about the intellectual world. What Jack found out later, is that education doesn't always come from school or university. He continues to uncover this truth when he reminisces about his summer spending time with the Stantons. That was the first day that he "saw Anne and Adam as separate, individual people...and [he] saw [himself] as a person" (p.166). Jack comes to acknowledge that there is meaning and lessons to learn outside of the classroom in that scene. Learning has veils and "year by year, [time] drew off another veil to expose a meaning which [they] had only dimly surmised at first...the brightness is meaning" (p.166).
Jack, when it comes to knowledge, seems to have an almost pompous air surrounding the subject, which probably stems from having a great education while being stuck next to people like Willie, Sugar Boy, and Tiny Duffy, who, while they do learn from life experiences, lack the 'proper' education aspect. His positive revaluation comes in chapter seven though, when he returns from his little excursion out West. On the train home, Jack ponders his place in life and his willingness to envy people. "I have often envied people," he says, "People I have seen fleeting, or some people I had known a long time, a man driving a long, straight furrow across a blank field in April, or Adam Stanton. I had, at moments, envied the people who seemed to have secret knowledge" (p.437). As he travels "eastward, over desert, under the shadow of the mountains, by mesas, [and] across plateaus" he realizes that power and education don't necessarily coincide. Knowledge is the important thing, whether it comes from a school or real life experiences. He ends his thoughts with the influential idea that "with knowledge you can face up to anything, for knowledge is power" (p.437).

Moxley Post #4

This section of the reading has brought a lot of new information to light, tying up the strings left hanging and creating almost a tunnel that gets smaller and smaller as we near the end of the story. This section of the reading started out with so many things going on and so many messes that needed to be cleaned up so the book could start to wind down, and as we finished the section the author had tidied up everything from the previous section, including some things that had been subtly evolving throughout the book. I focused in particular on the long and winding history of Jack Burden and Willie Talos that is sewn shut with Willie's death, and both Jack and Willie confront their unspoken respect for each other and how much they rely on the other's camaraderie. As the events that led to the death of Willie Talos unfolded, Jack's first concern after addressing his dying friend Adam Stanton is to find the Boss: "I didn't see the Boss. And thought: he didn't hit him. But I was wrong." (pg. 552) Jack realizes with a sinking feeling that the Boss did get shot, and later on at the hospital he goes to see the Boss and feels the full weight of their relationship. "I stood up close to the bed and looked down at him, and tried to think of something to say. But my brain felt as juiceless as an old sponge left out in the sun a long time. Then he said, in something a little better than a whisper, "I wanted to see you, Jack." "I wanted to see you, too, Boss."" (pg. 556) Losing Willie, the closest thing Jack ever really had to a father, especially so soon after Jack finds out who his real father is and loses his father to suicide, is probably the most real loss Jack has ever suffered in his life, as he isn't really one to make lots of personal connections. At the beginning of the book, Jack and Willie have an employer-employee relationship that borders on friendship; as the book continues, they become closer and closer until Jack finds out about Anne Stanton and the Boss, making him question their evolving relationship and driving a wedge between them. But Jack is the person the Boss wants to see one last time before he dies, showing how much he cares about Jack and how much Jack meant to him. In the end, their relationship is that of father and son, a politician and his advisor, a mentor and his apprentice, as Jack and Willie say goodbye after all they've been through.

Christie #4

In Chapters 8 and 9 of All the King's Men, much drama transpires, at a sharp contrast to the first few chapters, which were full of memories and lacking action. In this refreshing and overwhelming section, Jack finds out about Anne and Willie, relives his past with Anne, Tom is nearly killed and accused of impregnating a teenage girl, said girl is used as a pawn in the political war between Talos and MacMurfee, the Judge commits suicide, Jack discovers the identity of his father, Adam kills Willie, and Sugar Boy kills Adam. However, in the midst of all the sitcom-esque drama, the most important revelation is that Jack is not, in fact, heartless. When he learns of the death of his true father at the hand of unbearable guilt inflicted by Jack himself, the isolated, detached, indifferent Jack Burden gives way to someone strikingly, painfully human. Although Jack does not directly express much emotion regarding the loss of both the Judge and the Scholarly Attorney, for he feels it irrelevant as they are both dead and gone, we see glimpses of guilt, confusion, sorrow, and conflict within him. When he learns of his inheritance and is struck full in the face by the sheer irony of the situation, Jack laughs a twisted, mirthless, exhausted laugh and writes "It was like the ice breaking up after a long winter, and the winter had been long" (pg 494). While he may simply be referring to his laughter after a long time without it, the long winter could also refer to the coldness and numbness of his heart, that finally shattered. The breaking of the ice shell around Jack's heart is the most subtle and significant revelation of this section of the book.

Gordon Post #4

What we want to happened and what is happening are two very different things sometimes.  We all wish that life would turn one way or another especially when we feel that its our time for some sun.  Walking along in this dangerous alternate reality we can easily lose sight of the present, and then without warning we can be abruptly brought back into it.  This hurts double because the reason we believed so much in this hunch of how things were going to go is because we wanted to escape the logical, negative future that we expect because its happened so many times before.  So we want to say, every time something unexpected happens, that "this time will be different."  We hope that something somewhere is pulling for us. We want to believe in miracles.

Willie Talos was in this state when he was first in the democratic primary's.  As a self-taught lawyer from dirt poor Mason City he thought that his time had finally come.  He thought that the shiny, black cars from the city with the big politicians meant that he had made it.  That he Willie Talos would be the one that would bring his state to the promise land, and give the people everything they needed.  That he would be loved.  And as he writes speeches about income tax, and infrastructure and all the things that the state needs, and what he thinks the people want to hear, he never stops to look in the mirror.  He is blind to the fact that he is being used.  This is evident to everyone else who is familiar with the situation that he is just a "dummy who might split the MacMurfee vote. (P.93)" The dawn finally breaks in the form of Sadie Burke who had considered Willie a fool for not noticing earlier and when it is finally revealed cooks him for it.  "Oh you decoy, you wooden-headed decoy, you let em! you let em, because you thought you were the little white lamb of god! (P.113)" Its moments like these where people really change, ice water crashes down on your head and chills you to the bone and you sit there in your PJ's  shaking your head and saying "it happened again, damn it." Some call it quits and decide that putting themselves out there never accomplishes anything and they pull up all the lines and sail out to their own little island where there is no disappointment because there is nothing for them to fail at.  Other will not accept this passive approach, and when they realize that they will not be given what they want they decide to take it.  

Willie as it turns out is one of those people.  He goes out and channels his rage and gathers the support of the people because like him they have been duped also, and both will not stand for it anymore (but in the case of the people they need someone to tell them that). "He drove the pants off his pretty good second-hand car over the washboard and through the hub-deep dust and got mired in the black gumbo when the rain came and sat in his car waiting for the span of mules to come and pull him out. he stood on school-house steps and on the tops of goods boxes , and on the seat of a farm wagon and on the porches of cross-road stores and talked. (P. 132)"  This is when Willie first becomes The Boss.  He is no longer Cousin Willie, he has seen the political light so to speak, and he now knows that he only way to fight fire is with bigger fire.  Super human energy and confidence are two of Willies most important tools and both come directly from his reaction to this inconvenient truth.              

Question 4!

Question 4



What's revealed is why Adam Stanton wanted to be the head of the Willie Talos hospital. First the reader reads and thinks oh, Adam, he's such a great outstanding citizen. Living in a crappy dump of a house and helping out all these people in need. "How do you even recognize the good?"-page 359. Adam says this to Willie, but looking back on it, it now seems like he was asking himself, even though he keeps doing good, he is unable to recognize it. "They told him about me and then how that was they only reason he was ever made director and how now the Governor was going to dismiss him as-because he had paralyzed his son with a bad operation-"page 544. When Anne comes in hysterical explaining all this to Jack, the reader starts wondering what's up with Adam, why is he being not that nice. If you look throughout the book there are all these weird instances where Adam and Anne will randomly fight, or when on page 164 when Jack catches Adam staring at him while he's checking out Anne. For some reason Adam's face flushes with color when Jack sees him doing this and starts running proclaiming a race. Now it might be seen as some weird form of protectiveness or jealousy over his sister. When Adam kills Willie the reader is not just tipped off, but has evidence that Adam was not a wholly good person thrown in their face. Adam goes berserk and kills the Boss just because the someone had told him that the Boss had slept with his sister and that that was the reason he got the job, and now he would be fired. The last part was probably untrue, and Adam didn't seem to mention that as much to his sister. He only really cared about the fact that his little sister was sleeping with big bad Willie Talos, the Governor, the Boss. He said he would not be made pimp to his sisters whore, that's a brutal thing to say to someones sister. The reason Adam wanted to be made head of the Willie Talos hospital is because he wanted his little sister to look up to him, he wanted Anne to like what he does. Adam from the moment that you see him staring at Jack to the moment you see him dying on the ground, is always close with his sister as Anne says, he always seemed very protective over her and didn't want her mixing up with the wrong people, a.k.a. Willie.

Supawit Post #4

This part of the reading was quite fascinating to read, as all of the events tie in with each other and we began to see why Jack restrains himself from intimacy. I find it interesting how Jack keeps these important memories of his past relationships with women hidden until he finds out about Willie and Anne's affair. Warren develops Jack's character as a very private person, who does not open up to people very easily. For that reason, Jack decided to leave out his very personal, meaningful past with his audience until he had no other choice. His heartbreak with Anne before she and Willie had an affair is one of the biggest influences on his distant nature. After he begins having issues with his newly wedded wife Lois, he thinks that, "...as long as Lois was merely the machine-Lois, as long as she was simply a well dressed animal, as long as she was really a part of innocent non human nature, as long as I hadn't begun to notice that sounds she made were words, there was no harm in her and no harm in the really extraordinary pleasure she could provide" (424). Jack views Lois in a very primal way. The mere fact that he is uncomfortable with her having any sort of opinion in itself shows that he is only attracted to her sexually; distancing himself from any kind of personal connection that married couples should have. Though this was not a memory of the past in this section particularly, the fact that his mom continues to have husbands that come and go adds to his intimacy issues. Jack's mother is the women he is supposed to look up to. Since she sets this example starting at an early age, it subconsciously pushes Jack further and further away from being a committed friend and husband. This intimacy mentioned is not only in regard to his relationships with women, but with Willie as well. After Jack confronts Anne about the affair Anne responds, "You don't know him..You've known him all these years and you don't know him at all"(454).  She makes a good point that I had not really taken notice of before.  Despite all the years that Jack had been working with the Boss, they never really seemed to have any conversations regarding Jack's personal life. Though he does work for Willie, they spend a lot of time together that is open for conversation. Perhaps if Jack had opened up to Willie, this whole messy affair would not have occurred in the first place.

Iida Post #4

The revelations surrounding Judge Irwin and his death all tie into the theory of The Spider Web that Jack comes up with earlier on in All the King’s Men, that anything you do will come back to haunt you, that you can never escape the stern-eyed judge which is time.  At the beginning of this section in the book, the reader already knows about Judge Irwin’s past, how he took a bribe and, in doing so, helped kill Mr. Littlepaugh. However, when Jack goes over to Judge Irwin’s house in search of the truth, both Jack and the reader are hoping that something new will be found out, that the Judge, who is such an upright figure in the rest of the story, will have some sort of redeeming characteristic, but there is none. “You know, sometimes-for a long time at a stretch-it’s like it hadn’t happened. Not to me. Maybe to somebody else, but not to me. Then I remember, and when I first remember I say, no, it could not have happened to me…But it did.” (p 482-483). But because of this action the Judge took a long time ago, he was going to have to pay. The laws of the world in this book are harsh and unmoving. The Judge had to pay, but not without one last kick, to keep the circle going around and around like clockwork. Jack finds out the new complication in the story at the same time he finds out about the Judge’s death. His mother is the one who tells him. “’You killed him, you killed him.’ ‘Killedd who?’ I demanded, shaking her. ‘Your father,’ she said ‘your father and oh! you killed him.’” (p 487). This is when Jack learns the truth about himself and the truth about the ugly job he was sent to do, the truth of what he has done. He doesn’t take it too much to heart, however, protecting himself through the knowledge that it was predestined. “Judge Irwin had killed Mortimer L. Littlepaugh. But Mortimer had killed Judge Irwin in the end. Or had it been Mortimer? Perhaps I had done it…Mortimer had killed Judge Irwin because Judge Irwin had killed him, and I had killed Judge Irwin because Judge Irwin had created me.” (p 492). Jack’s theory of the spiderweb is a theory of destiny and chain reactions and helpless people along for the ride that their lives will take. Judge Irwin is just another one of the characters helplessly entwined in the spiderweb of life, and Jack is just another blind, helpless player in that game. However, Judge Irwin’s death is a reminder to everyone that something is wrong and that something needs to change, that if life continues the way it is they will all be heading for destruction, through themselves or others. This is Jack’s spiderweb, a spiderweb that encompasses them all without their notice, binding them to lifelong, inevitable pacts. 

Amanda smith post-chapter 9

In All The Kings Men there is a constant theme regarding corruption and the good and bad sides of the human mentality. As jack burden travels west, simply getting in his car and driving the thousands of miles to the coast you, the reader, finally get to understand he and Ann's relationship through his inner dialogue. He recounts the summer they spent together and the moment he told her he loved her and the days that followed, you see him coward out of sleeping with her and then blame it on his nobility. He then unravels the thoughts of nobility versus fear and how easy it is to blame his parents coming home as the reason that he didn't sweep her off her feet that day. Jack is getting to know himself in this drive to California and Robert Penn Waren is finally writing the untellings of jack and allowing the readers to be captivated by the relatable vulnerability. Jacks philosophical inquiries bad begun as being about the world, about life and about the fascinations of human nature and in the scenes he rattles off about Ann are finally about him. He described her jumping off the tallest diving board with grace and ease and that is the moment he knows he is in love with her, and their first kiss was so beautiful and timid and he laughed when noticing it must have been her first kiss. The pact they made to get married and the betrayal of her and Willies relationship sent him over the edge and forced him to realize that timidity would get him no where with the woman he loved and made him question whether she meant what she had said to him. "'Do you love me?' I said sternly, 'Of course I do Jackie Boy, of course I love my Jackie Bird', 'don't call me Jackie Bird! God damn it don't you love me?','why? Of course I love my Jackie Bird'" (508). Ann doesn't take Jack seriously in this passage, it gives reason for him to worry over her level of sincerity in her love for him. And opens up that window for his uncertainty and mental battle.

DIRECTIONS for Posting #4

DIRECTIONS through page 558 - In which events unravel, unfurl, and much is revealed
   What has been revealed?  Post early, because each new post needs to talk about a unique lesson, or a unique revelation, or some new way of understanding events or characters. 
   Add to the ideas in someone else's post for Thursday's comment.